| Hidden Account |
| Stallion :: Equine :: 17'2 :: 14 Buff: NOVICE |
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Cynder :: Common Green Dragon :: Fire Breath
Snow |
Hi everyone! So, one of Tyradon and Confutatis' twins, played by Wanda, will be bonding with a black dragon fairly soon after her birth. Wanda and I had the idea that it would be kind of cool if Tyradon's dragon, Cynder, is the mother of the egg and gives it to Nymeria (Wanda's filly), probably during the twins' birth thread. At the same time, Cynder will detect that Volterra (the twin played by me) has the ability to bond to two dragons and notify him of this.
So I was wondering - does anybody have a male dragon willing to breed with Cynder? Obviously if there's no takers I'll just have her mate with a wild NPC dragon, but I thought I'd offer this out here first in case anybody has a hot boy dragon who would like to have an actively played offspring onsite. To my knowledge it's not happened before (except for way back on Isilme) so it could be extremely interesting! Colour doesn't matter as iirc dragons have clutches of eggs of alllll different colours regardless of the parents c:
| Outcast |
| Mare :: Equine :: 15.2 :: 10 |
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Tallis :: Common Orange Dragon :: Fire Breath & Toxic Breath
ali |
Odd the doer of things Posts: 115
| Administrator atk: 23 | def: 42 | dam: 108 |
| Mare :: Other :: 5"2 :: 27 HP: 108 | Buff: badass |
| Odd |
Tagging @[Tamme]. For some reason I seem to remember that companions can't produce offspring.
| Hidden Account atk: 5 | def: 8.5 | dam: 5.5 |
| Mare :: Equine :: 16.2hh :: 9 HP: 65 | Buff: NOVICE |
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Mongrel :: Common Kitsune :: Dark Illusions
wanda |
Normally, I believe that would be the case Aud.
However, since I have a prize for a plain SS, we thought this would simply give the egg a bit more of a backstory than "finds it".
Tamme the Tempting Posts: 140
| Administrator |
| Mare :: Other :: 2 :: 2 HP: 9001 | Buff: Admin |
| Tamme |
They can produce offspring, but you cannot bond to the offspring. If the egg has parents, then there is no reason for you to bond to it. All companion eggs were abandoned in some way.
| Hidden Account |
| Stallion :: Equine :: 17'2 :: 14 Buff: NOVICE |
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Cynder :: Common Green Dragon :: Fire Breath
Snow |
So we can't do it then? :C
On Isilme, Adalwulf's dragon had an egg which she gave to Gunslinger, I believe, so I don't see why it couldn't be the case here? To my knowledge not all eggs are abandoned - there have been some events I'm sure where the egg's parent gives it to a character out of choice. Cynder would simply be giving the egg to her bonded's daughter as a gift then leaving Helovia alongside Tyra. It would just make it more interesting than 'oh look a random egg' and as I say not all eggs have been abandoned in the past :/
Odd the doer of things Posts: 115
| Administrator atk: 23 | def: 42 | dam: 108 |
| Mare :: Other :: 5"2 :: 27 HP: 108 | Buff: badass |
| Odd |
12-22-2014, 12:13 PM
(This post was last modified: 12-22-2014, 12:20 PM by Odd.)
Well this isn't Isilme, for one, so some things are different. All eggs here have been abandoned. That's how our bonding works. :)
| Hidden Account |
| Stallion :: Equine :: 17'2 :: 14 Buff: NOVICE |
|
Cynder :: Common Green Dragon :: Fire Breath
Snow |
The egg would still be being 'abandoned' as both Tyra and Cynder are leaving here as soon as the twins are born. It just seems very restricting to prevent familial relations between companions Dx
Tamme the Tempting Posts: 140
| Administrator |
| Mare :: Other :: 2 :: 2 HP: 9001 | Buff: Admin |
| Tamme |
Well it was a rule from Isilme/Anarore, and the idea that the eggs have to be abandoned was also based on Blu's companion lore, so.... I am asking Blu about it. However I do remember there being an issue before with this and the admin saying that the eggs were not playable because they had family. Only abandoned eggs were able to be found and played because otherwise, they would have no reason to bond. Alot of this is found in the thread with the Earth God and Ampere too, which will be posted as a story soon in the guides.
Ali remembered something from Adalwulf, but that predated Anarore, which is where we are drawing the majority of the lore from. I'll ask Blu, but in the past, this has been a rule that we have followed - especially due to the fact that what is to keep other players from breeding their companions and demanding eggs by just writing that the parents left the site? It just leads to a bad precedence, but I'll run it by Blu again to try to remember that rule from anarore correctly.
Odd the doer of things Posts: 115
| Administrator atk: 23 | def: 42 | dam: 108 |
| Mare :: Other :: 5"2 :: 27 HP: 108 | Buff: badass |
| Odd |
Sorry if I sounded short - I'm on my phone!
I don't know. It hasn't been allowed before, so I'm not sure. Tamme will have answers :)
| Hidden Account |
| Stallion :: Equine :: 17'2 :: 14 Buff: NOVICE |
|
Cynder :: Common Green Dragon :: Fire Breath
Snow |
12-22-2014, 12:50 PM
(This post was last modified: 12-22-2014, 12:54 PM by Tyradon.)
No worries :)
My thinking is that this would be a very rare thing. The only way it could happen was if, like with wanda, someone has the prize of a newborn companion, as all other companions are given out by drops. To me, it adds an interesting dynamic - companion breeding would be mega rare so it wouldn't become a mass spam of people breeding their companions, however it would be so interesting to have a companion whose parent is also playable. I'm thinking especially with dragons where there's such a focus on colour hierarchy - there'd be so much plot potential in, for example, a black producing a bronze egg, which could give people amazing plots with their companions. 'My dragon is a higher ranked colour than yours but it is still subservient because yours is its father'.
I really don't see the harm with allowing this just as a variation on 'oops there's another abandoned random egg'. For me at least, having a companion with family would be so much plot potential. And, to again bring up isilme (which I know this isn't but a lot of its lore is taken from isilme) I remember doing a drop where a dragon mother CHOSE to give her egg to an equine for protection c: for cynder it would make IC sense - she knows what an advantage it is to have a dragon bonded to an equine, so she'd want her offspring to be bonded, and would naturally choose a child of Tyra.
Mauja the Frozen Light Posts: 1,392
| Outcast atk: 6.5 | def: 10.5 | dam: 7.5 |
| Stallion :: Unicorn :: 17.2 :: 14 HP: 79.5 | Buff: HUNTER |
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Irma :: Snowy Owl :: Terrorize
& Diego :: Eurasian Eagle-Owl :: Rage
Neo |
I don't really have an opinion either way, but as Clip's been mentioned, I'll just put out the facts of what happened and why so that no one has to guess as to what happened :)
Adalwulf and Requiem bred, at which point their bonded dragons, Nidhöggr and Israfel, bred too. They had a randomly colored clutch including the bronze egg she decided to give to whoever in the Valley was the most worthy. This was part of the drop schedule, just that it was played out by me, as Nidhöggr. I think there were only two people entering the drop, Gunslinger being one of them, and Niddy being the war-like dragon she was, picked him over the other colt that attended. The bronze was named Clip, and in true animal fashion forgot Nidhöggr was its mother, and each time they met flaunted his royal bronze scales. :)
So that's what went down and how and why. ^^
angels, they fell first, but I'm still here
| Hidden Account |
| Stallion :: Equine :: 17'2 :: 14 Buff: NOVICE |
|
Cynder :: Common Green Dragon :: Fire Breath
Snow |
12-22-2014, 01:33 PM
(This post was last modified: 12-22-2014, 01:38 PM by Tyradon.)
It's wrong that I remember that drop like it was yesterday, when it was actually like four years ago >.>
So yeah since these eggs were only given out as drops, there was no danger of people having their companions breed and going 'egg plz'. In the drop I did, the dragon was an unbonded NPC, and she had all the equines explain why they would be the best for her egg I think. ICly I think a lot of companions would want their offspring bonded as they are - and even wild ones wouldn't necessarily have to abandon an egg for it to bond. They could see their bonded compatriots and be like 'dayum I want some of that' and optionally GIVE their egg to a character for protection, which removes the aspect of 'why bond when you have parents'.
As I say, here this could probably only happen if someone had a prize for a newborn companion - or maybe every so often when the admins are looking for backstory behind an egg drop, they could use eggs born from onsite companions with the player's permission? I just really think it would add an awesome new angle to companion dynamics. I mean, not so much in this case since Cynder is leaving, but I can definitely picture family relations between companions and the plots it would inspire :D Hell, in my headcanon all the dragons I've played are related in some way like their bonded equines are.
Tamme the Tempting Posts: 140
| Administrator |
| Mare :: Other :: 2 :: 2 HP: 9001 | Buff: Admin |
| Tamme |
12-22-2014, 03:46 PM
(This post was last modified: 12-22-2014, 03:55 PM by Tamme.)
Well, the issue lies in exactly what you said. Your companion would have family and therefore would have absolutely no reason to bond to another character.
This is what I have a problem with - it's a lore thing and not a rules thing, to me.
The way it works here and the way it's played out is that the only eggs that can bond to other characters are eggs that are abandoned and would die anyway. It's the only way the gods justify tying an independent life to your character, and it's the way Blu and I set it up. So in a way, by bonding to the egg, you are saving the companion from dying before being hatched and not just tying your soul to another creature who has a family and could fend for itself.
Companions are not supposed to have family because otherwise, you would be selfishly ripping them away from their kind and forcing them to live with you and you alone. It's why most drops, all drops really, are just lone eggs that have been forgotten, lost or abandoned (or found by another creature and given away).
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What you do with companions brought into Helovia from anywhere else is your deal, your lore, whatever you want, really. However, the way it works on Helovia is that if your character is born here, finds their companion here, uses a prize here, wins a drop here, etc, the gods allow the bond to form because the companion has chosen you and thus chosen life.
There have been drops where the egg has chosen death instead and picked no one and died off. There are no companion "families", otherwise, they would have been taken care of enough to have been hatched into the wild, free.
Blu the Bootyful Posts: 443
| Administrator atk: 99 | def: 99 | dam: 99 |
| Mare :: Other :: 5'7" :: 25 HP: 99999 | Buff: TWERK |
| Blu |
On phone so short and sweet for now, but as neo said that's how the drop for gunslingers dragon went down. I want to remind everyone of a few things though.
1. Early isilme involved a lot of exploring what worked and didn't work. Some things that admin chose to do then have since been decided as not a great idea for either ooc or ic reasons. There's always trial and error when testing new systems, which companions were at the time.
2. Isilme only had dragon companions. Their lore was heavily based off the dragon riders of pern books, in which dragons routinely had clutches and gave away eggs. The big deal with bonding in the books, and isilme, was immediately feeding the hatchling
Helovia has done away with the hunting and has many bondable species which have created different needs from the lore.
| Hidden Account atk: 5 | def: 8.5 | dam: 5.5 |
| Mare :: Equine :: 16.2hh :: 9 HP: 65 | Buff: NOVICE |
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Mongrel :: Common Kitsune :: Dark Illusions
wanda |
First off, I'm sorry if this become more of an issue that originally intended. It was meant to be only a plot idea which provided a bit of background to the gaining of the egg. In turn, however, it just seems... we're making a big deal out of something small? :)
tamme Wrote:Well, the issue lies in exactly what you said. Your companion would have family and therefore would have absolutely no reason to bond to another character.
While normally this would be the case, the mother is bonded (to Tyradon.) If she feels that her bond has been an amazing experience and she cannot imagine life without her companion -- which I believe to be the case -- would it not be plausible for her to bestow this gift upon her child by giving it away? She would not be raising the egg, after all; Nymeria would. Nor would she even be around as it's parent -- the dragon would be raised with Nymeria as it's mother, like any other companion (and with likely no knowledge of Cynder.)
And, in truth, I am uncertain why the gods would care about this c: I find it difficult to imagine the God of the Earth or the like frowning upon the choice of the mother, who only wants the best for her child -- which she feels to be best achieved by allowing her egg to bond to Nymeria.
| Hidden Account |
| Stallion :: Equine :: 17'2 :: 14 Buff: NOVICE |
|
Cynder :: Common Green Dragon :: Fire Breath
Snow |
12-22-2014, 04:49 PM
(This post was last modified: 12-22-2014, 04:51 PM by Tyradon.)
Basically what wanda said xD
The lore set down from Helovia's predecessors is that sometimes companions choose to bond their offspring to our characters. As Neo says, Nid chose to give her offspring to a war-minded equine like herself, so it's not unfeasible that other companions here would optionally give their offspring to a character for protection or because they know the benefits the bond can bring (as wanda mentions, it's pretty awesome for the companions involved). Essentially it's the same choice as the gods are making - to bond a companion for the mutual benefit of it and its bonded. I don't see how having an onsite family affects that? You may not be saving their life but you're giving them protection and love, which is the same whether they have family or not.
The scenario I'm suggesting is essentially the same thing as most drops anyway. If Cynder had an egg with an NPC wild dragon (as initially planned, I just thought it would be cool to offer someone with a played male dragon a chance to see an active offspring) and gave the egg to wanda's twin before she leaves to offsiteville, the egg still has no onsite parents, which to me is pretty much the same as a dragon abandoning their egg to then be found by an equine. The only difference is that she's optionally given the egg with the purpose of bonding, rather than abandoning it to death, because of all the advantages she's had from her particular bonding that she wants to share with her offspring c:
| Outcast |
| Mare :: Equine :: 15.2 :: 10 |
|
Tallis :: Common Orange Dragon :: Fire Breath & Toxic Breath
ali |
If the male dragon is played onsite then wouldn't the egg still have a parent?
| Dragon's Throat Sultan atk: 8.5 | def: 11.5 | dam: 8.5 |
| Stallion :: Equine :: 17'2hh :: 3 HP: 80 | Buff: SENSE |
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Vérzés :: Common Red Dragon :: Frost Breath & Toxic Breath
& Vadir :: Royal Gold Dragon :: Fire Breath & Shock Breath
Snow |
Yeah that's what I was saying I'd do it with a wild NPC if that made it allowed c: Obviously I'd prefer for it to be a played onsite character but if that's not allowed I'd have it be a wild NPC if that made it okay <3
Tamme the Tempting Posts: 140
| Administrator |
| Mare :: Other :: 2 :: 2 HP: 9001 | Buff: Admin |
| Tamme |
The gods do care because they are the gods over the entirety of Helovia. The God of the Earth is in charge of protecting and supporting all creatures in Helovia from "others" to horses and to companion types. He wants species to have the choice of freedom and the choice of life. If the creature has a family, they are wild animals and they would live with their own family.
You should really read the thread with Ampere vs. the God of the Earth first because it will give you his perspective on the issue and why he cares.
I think the issue here is the thing that has been the lore since the beginning. Your character is only related and interacting with this dragon through a bond. Otherwise, it's a wild, carnivorous creature that would have no reason to care about your character. That is why the egg needs to be abandoned. Without that soul bond, the dragon would have no reason to give a shit about your character or their spawn.
Like Blu said, when we opened Helovia, we took what didn't work and changed it, especially to fit in with gods that are active and present and vastly different than the basis of Isilme. You are not allowed to NPC companion character for that purpose either, since that would be like writing in another companion too.
I think the best way to go about this would be to just follow the rules and lore of the site since these two are born on site. Unless the egg was abandoned and alone, it would hatch with its kind and be free. Dragons can mate with each other for plot purposes, but those eggs are considered wild, especially since their family is still alive and can raise them. I feel like there is too much of a stretch going on here with the instincts of wild animals.Companions are not meant to be your character's BFF and change their nature. It's more like having a soul bond with a killer creature that thus doesn't give a shit about anyone else but you.
Blu explained it to me really well. I'll have her explain it more when she gets back on.
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